Creating meaningful art usually takes time no matter the project. But in the Australian band Karnivool’s case, their latest album In Verses took over ten years to come to fruition. Over the span of this release gap from Asymmetry, the band experienced life changes, personal growth, but still held onto the initial creative spark that kept the band alive even if the process of making In Verses was a slow-burner. With far more wisdom and a bit more reflection under their belt, this new era for Karnivool sounds better than ever as the group confidently experiments with new sounds, tackles existential lyrical themes and reintroduces themselves to fans both old and new.
We had the opportunity to talk to singer Ian Kenny and guitarist Drew Goddard from Karnivool about the process of writing In Verses, how they have overcome creative adversities throughout the years and any advice they could share with artists or bands experiencing a creative rut.
mxdwn: We’ll just get right into it. You have this new album coming out. It’s the first album in over 10 years. Do you feel like In Versus is sort of like a reintroduction to Karnivool? And how would you describe this new chapter for your band?
Goddard: Yeah, it’s a long time between albums. So I think as far as a reintroduction, I guess so for people that know the band. But we’re very aware that it might be an introduction for many people still, hopefully, because there’s a whole bunch more people that we’d like to reach that we think would connect with the music. So hopefully it’ll be a reconnection and just a continuation for some. Feels like a continuation for us. It doesn’t feel like we’ve… I guess it re-energized the band. “Oh, look, we can complete an album after so long.” But just with a concerted effort of everyone, putting conscious thought and time into it, it was like, “Okay, we know how to do this. That’s what we do.”
mxdwn: Is it kind of like riding a bike? It’s kind of a natural thing for you guys to get back into?
Kenny: No.
Goddard: Not really.
Kenny: It’s like riding a bike that you haven’t seen in a while and the tires have changed, but the back ones are the same, but it needs a bit of work. “What’s that seat do? Yeah, let’s sit on this seat. Oh, yep. Still feels pretty good. How’s the brakes working?”
Goddard: I felt like there was no seat on the bike for about seven years actually. But Forrester was a big part of being a bike mechanic as well. Forrester Savell, who’s our old friend who did the first two albums came along and he’s got this fantastic work ethic. He doesn’t get overwhelmed. I tend to get overwhelmed with the amount of work that’s involved in a Karnivool album, but we just sent his chip away and we got it done.
Kenny: Yeah, I think having Forrester in that, getting access to him and vice versa for the better part of three, probably longer, nearly five months or whatever, the stars align. He’s our guy. We’ve known this for a long time. He’s got a very good understanding of who we are and how to facilitate things and understand the inner workings and deal with the interpersonal stuff. The whole thing, like everything that it takes for people to make music right in that creative space. He’s seen us do it before and try and fail and the whole thing, and our successes as well. So yeah, he was a huge part to it. To get it did.
mxdwn: I love that. It sounds like a very natural progression, not just the band, but you guys as artists. And I think it sounds incredible.
Goddard: You had a listen? Appreciate it.
mxdwn: Yeah, of course. One thing I’m interested in is choosing the first single off the new album. Given that you guys had such a long break in between albums, was the process any different from choosing a lead single off of this new album knowing that this will be the first new song longtime fans will listen to after such a long break?
Kenny: I think “Drone” out of the pile of songs came together a little ahead of things, and that song started to speak big volumes. It was just a great opportunity to sort of wet the whistle again and get Karnivool fans engaged again. It’s a very engaging song. It’s fun as hell. It was fairly obvious, I think. I can’t remember what the other contenders would have been, but yeah, that one was definitely top of the pile.
Goddard: Yeah, I think because we got a vibe on it, we went, “I think people are going to like this song. We’re really enjoying it, which is the real…”
Kenny: We’re having fun with it.
Goddard: That’s kind of the only thing we have to go on, really. As well as some close friends and family who we play to and we pull some vibes in and go, yeah, that’s winning. We should try and get this finished first so we can get it out and wet the whistle, as Kenny said. We did have “All It Takes” about four years ago too as a little bit of a stopgap or something. To me it sounds like… Well, we also recorded the song “Animation” at the same time as we did “All It Takes.” So to me, I hear those two songs and it does sound like they were recorded at different times. Forrester wasn’t with us, so we were pulling our own sounds. Actually, the drums were done by Forrester. I correct myself there. And I think the bass. But yeah, the rest was just sort of done on our own steam. He mixed it at the end. But the rest of it, he was there for all of it.
mxdwn: I guess it’s kind of like a gut feeling whenever you guys are vibing with the song, you just understand that your fans are also going to connect with it in a way that you guys connect with it?
Goddard: Not always the case, but we have to trust our own instincts there and what works for us hopefully works for others.
mxdwn: I do love the song “Aozora” which is definitely a sense of finding freedom with the repetition of “waiting for the great escape.” What sonic elements in the song particularly do you think encapsulate that feeling of escapism?
Goddard: Which elements in the song did you say capture that?
Kenny: Sonic elements. That’s a really good question. It’s the first time I’ve been asked that. I think immediately there’s some really frenetic drumming that Steve does. I always feel like it’s a wicked symbolisation of the sort of caginess of that sort of part. Because the next part of the song, there’s these full releases into it, as he gets into the pre-chorus and then obviously into the chorus where it really swings open. So that’s a kind of cool, really that cage boxed-in panic almost, and he’s playing in those sections and then the freedom in the next parts is fucking cool.
Goddard: Also in that frenetic bit, there’s this sample that, it’s kind of like that kind of weird little sound that was a bit of a happy accident. It was made with this little box, like a signal generator, called a Drone Commander. Which is where the song “Drone” came from. “Drone Commander,” it was called originally after this box, because that sample that starts the song and goes underneath the verses and everything was just built from that sound. It was built over the top and we just started jamming over it. And a similar thing happened with “Aozora.”
It’s funny, a little bit of technology can inspire a couple of songs like that. But that’s what it did very early on in the writing process around 2014, 2015. They just sort of started those songs and we got back to them and finished them. So that sort of sound to me, it just reminded me of, it sounded alarming, to the sonics of it.
Kenny: Yeah, it does have that alarm feel to it.
Goddard: The idea of it sort of someone escaping from some kind of prison scenario and that frenetic bit, I think that was trying to… that’s sort of what it felt like to me anyway. I don’t know if it was a conscious thing, we didn’t think. That’s just sort of the feeling that it gave. I don’t think there was any thought. There was never any talk about this is what the song’s about. Kenny just sang that “waiting for the great escape” line as a response to the music and it went from there.
But I think music to me is just tension and release. And there’s a lot of that dissonance and then the resolve, even in that guitar intro, I think you can hear a lot of that. Even the nostalgic notes or, there’s little intervals to me can give those feelings if it’s done right. And with whatever melody it goes with it to compliment it. I think that’s the beauty of music. But yeah, in a lot of the chords, like that big release bit in the middle of “Aozora,” when it… I can’t think of the time marker, just before that sort of the low middle bit, then it builds up and there’s a real release in the sonics of that and some of the atmospheres that’s going on in the background while it builds up with the picking part. I think that’s all trying to add to that looking for freedom and that great escape kind of feeling. We always try to end strong too, so there’s a real release or still with a bit of a question mark at the end. It’s never obvious. Maybe it leaves a question in the listener’s mind, maybe.
mxdwn: That’s really cool. It sounds like whenever you’re using a new piece of technology or an instrument, you’re allowing whatever emotions you’re feeling, like your body is feeling, you let it naturally translate into whatever music you’re making.
Goddard: Yeah, definitely. Let it come through.
mxdwn: A common thread I noticed with the lyrics in In Verses is this sense of fleeting hope or a little bit of the idea of fate. In the context of the album, do you think it’s more courageous to hold on to hope in trying times rather than to accept whatever fate comes our way?
Kenny: Personally, the way I’m built, I’d always lean into holding on to the hope in the face of everything falling apart. Hope sort of always raises its head in and out of Karnivool music, because when we’re sort of in the middle of creation and things are flowing, it’s probably where I definitely feel my safest, in there. And you can kind of let your guard down and you can feel bigger things and be okay with that. And hope is a big one in there. The idea of fate, wrestling with fate, that things are so predetermined, and where you sit on the line with that, and how much control you hand over. Also faith as well. We wrestle faith, not that we have anything against it, it’s just more questions. The doors just keep opening, right? But definitely, yeah, hope is in there. You gotta hang on to something.
mxdwn: Do you think like where you were writing these lyrics, do you think it was easier for you to get to a more creative headspace now that you had so much time away from past releases or was it a little bit harder to get to that place?
Kenny: It’s always a bit of a climb because those lyrics come from many different approaches and sessions and times, and from other people in the band. Everyone’s throwing in their 20 cents, right? We’re all sort of piling in when we’re together and working. So there’s always stuff to pull from. And then usually it all just comes together when we commit. And like we did at the start of this year, getting the record done with Forrester, there was a lot to pull from. There’s always a healthy well of cool ideas and things you don’t really understand that you’ve got to kind of see through and put them down and feel them out until they make sense. That happens a lot. And then there’s always that little bit in reserve where you’re actually recording for real. You’re about to put it down, then you’re like, “Actually, you know what, let’s just try this, blah, blah, blah.” And they go, “Fuck, that’s cool.” Whack that at the last minute. Things that tend to reveal themselves in those moments when you’re really in it. A lot of it is that flow thing that we all chase. It’s in those moments where you actually hear something quite differently and it tells you something and in the end you understand that. You’re like, “Oh, fuck. Right. That’s cool. Let’s do that.”
mxdwn: So do you feel like the music, whenever you listen back to the actual instrumentation, it helps influence what lyrics or what words you’re going to say in the song too?
Kenny: Sometimes, from my side of things, lyrically, I’m usually feeding off rhythm. It’s usually a big thing because I like the phrasing. I like to stick things a certain way. Obviously the melody will follow that, which is a lot of fun with Karnivool music. The stuff bounces around all the time. So it’s fucking fun. Yeah. Good times.
mxdwn: It definitely sounds like, at least like at this point in the band, obviously you’re in a different place from where you started, but it sounds like you’re in a more carefree space to create music. And I think that’s really important as a band.
Kenny: Yeah, I think we’re all right now in really good shape because we’ve got this thing we’ve been trying to do together for a long time. And now we can love it and share it, and it’s emotionally, incredibly so rewarding for everyone in and around it. Which is really, really cool. And it’s a good space we got there and we can share it now. That’s the whole idea of making this music. We’re very lucky we have a bunch of amazing people on planet Earth that really like what we do and we can share it. It’s fucking rad.
mxdwn: Obviously there’s a whole narrative with In Verses, through the music and the lyrics and everything, what kind of narrative do you think this album tells about the band Karnivool itself?
Kenny: I think there’s going to be parts in it where we may be pulling at the stitches a bit and being a bit honest about how difficult it can be for us to find what we want and to be able to do it the way we want. There’s a little bit of frustration that’ll pop up in there but there’s also this huge cathartic feel across the record too.
Goddard: And not giving up.
Kenny: Yeah, that’s a good one.
Goddard: That’s the main thing about being in a band. How do you be in a band for this long? Don’t give up. Just keep going because you love it. Even if it’s hard, because it does get very hard if you want to make great art. Which we try to do. So yeah, you’ve got to put a lot into it. I think the music and the story of the album, you can hear that adversity pulling through in adverse circumstances. I think that there’s a bit of that feeling throughout Karnivool’s music. The light, the element of hope, whatever it is. Hope’s a heavy burden. I can’t remember who said that. Hope to me, the word hope, just going back to that, that sort of takes the power away from the person a little bit. I think hope is an important thing, but to me, it sounds like someone’s… they’re relying on some external thing to pull them through. Whereas, I think we try to do that… the answers inside.
Kenny: Internally, yeah.
Goddard: I think that’s what we try to nod towards most of the time. The self-empowerment and self-determination and that sort of stuff.
mxdwn: That’s beautiful. Obviously hope is such a hard thing to hold on to, but I think that when you’re finding it internally, that’s when the real hope really shines.
Goddard: I think it does take courage, like you asked before, to hold on to hope in times. But I think the action part is the more important part. Taking the action, internally. Hopefully that comes through in the story. I think it does reflect the story of Karnivool too. Like in the struggles that we’ve had to get the album done. You can hear the frustration and all that sort of stuff. I can, anyway. The tension and the release and all of the parts that go with the stories that we’re trying to tell.
Kenny: Oh, hell yeah. I’ll just ask my therapist. He knows it all. He’s got it sorted.
mxdwn: I mean, zooming out a little bit, now that you have this new album, what would you say is the biggest difference from your earlier releases and making albums to this new album? What’s the biggest change you’ve seen both as a band, but also individually?
Goddard: Changes as a band?
Kenny: Good question, but I don’t know. I think we’re still, I don’t know how much we have changed. And that’s probably for all, for putting everything on the table, that’s probably a very good thing. It feels like the band is reactivated and engaged. I guess we got purpose again. It’s not like we ever lost it, but we were just in pursuit of creative purpose for a long time. And now we’re back with it and it’s a good space. It still just feels like another Karnivool record. I don’t know how different it’s going to feel for other people. But it feels like it’s us doing our thing again. We’re just older and wiser.
mxdwn: There’s nothing wrong with that. I feel like there’s nothing wrong with staying consistent. You know what works for you. And I think as long as you know how to operate, that’s a beautiful thing.
Kenny: Yeah. We don’t always know how to make things work their best. But like Drew said, there is an undying attitude of keep going and that has got us to here, for sure. And that’s everyone still finding a way to be there, love it and facilitate the best you can on any given day and work to the center. So that’s how we got there. Put the horns on and just fucking go.
mxdwn: So as long as you guys are all just on the same page with things, it just comes naturally for you guys?
Goddard: Well, sometimes you got to really push it and push yourself, and it takes a while. We’re all very much individuals and we scatter like cats after tours. Go off to different places and always get along really well when we’re back on the road. It’s all family and all back in the studio or wherever. But it takes a bit of time to get the thing happening again, individually, collectively. It’s always there. Someone asked me a couple of years ago at some panel I had to do, “What advice would you give to your younger self?” And I was like, “I’d get advice from my younger self now.” Because I think that was something where I didn’t overthink things in the early days when you just did. And life changes and you’ve got responsibilities and things, life distractions, there’s so many more of them. But I find when I’m operating best, I’m just sort of, this is that natural state I was in all the way back when I was a teenager, early 20s, or whatever. That state when I was just really engrossed in it. And that’s what I try to do is find that part of me again, which I think is always there. Music definitely keeps you young.
Kenny: Yeah, look at this. {Laughs}
mxdwn: So would you say all of the life experiences that you have experienced in between these albums come into this new album like through the elements of the lyrics and instrumentals and everything?
Kenny: Yeah, it’s crazy. There’s a fascinating thing, and maybe this is quite common, I don’t know. But within Karnivool stuff, because when we’re writing this stuff and putting it together, it comes from very different timestamps. There’s ideas from here and there. And it’s weird building this massive collage that it just filters through. Then you realise once it’s complete, and you think you know what it is, once it’s done and you listen to it, you’re like, “great.” And then you put it down and it swings around again in its final form. You’re like, oh wow, like the meaning of things and the gravity and the weight of some of these songs hits you in a completely different way. It shows you and you’re like, “Oh god damn. That’s fucking cool. Right. Okay.” I wasn’t feeling that or expecting that upon putting it together, but when it comes around again… and that keeps happening with Karnivool music to me and my part in it and some of the lyrics, like they make so much profound sense. Later on down the track, like a year later, you’re like, “Ah, goddamn. Cool, very cool.
Goddard: It’s weird. A lot of other artists have described that as well, where it sort of comes through and you don’t think, but it makes sense later. It’s really cool when that happens. The accidental or something. I don’t know.
Kenny: Something, yeah.
mxdwn: Once you felt the album was close to being finished, how did you know that it was fulfilling or you knew that it was ready to finally close the chapter and put an end to it, and let the world finally hear it?
Goddard: I think when I was in the hotel room in Sydney and Kenny was sick. I was probably at the end of my tether on the tour when we thought we had like a week past the overdue date and I’m still doing guitar lines in my hotel room. My God, this has got to finish sometime, you know? And it was just the last part of the last song. We’re like, all these different versions of it, the bagpipes and that lead line, and there was a key part, and then it’s just sort of going through all different variations until we’re like, “We got to get it right.” And it gets to the point where it’s not really making… Forrester said, “You’re not really making it better, you’re just making it different.” It’s the point of no return. I guess you just ask yourself the question, “Can you live with it?” There’s so many things. I still had lists, when I ended up going, “Okay, it’s done.” Little things like, “I’d change that, I’d change that.” But you just got to ask yourself, “Can you live with it?” I guess the answer was, “Yeah.” {Laughs}
Kenny: It’s good enough.
mxdwn: Honestly, it’s more than good enough. I think you guys created something really beautiful with this new album. And I think everyone’s gonna really love it.
Goddard: I think I’m too in it. So, I appreciate hearing things like that. I needed to show it to some friends and get some reality. That’s reality of someone who’s just hearing it and going… Maybe being in the same room, I got to sort of feel what it was like, for hearing it for the first time and getting some sort of external subjective, objective, kind of, but you never do. Later on, I think I might get a better perspective.
Kenny: Yeah. I think that’s how it works with us.
mxdwn: I have one more question for you guys. What kind of advice would you give to artists or bands who are also experiencing a creative hiatus or a creative rut that needs to find that initial spark again like you did with this new album?
Kenny: I guess from my point of view, if you still love what you do and it’s still a huge part of who you are and it’s important, then just find some devices and some ways to manage those moments, those frustrations, those sort of lost hallways where you’re just like, “Fuck, I just don’t know where this is going or why is this not… doing it, what’s happening.” Just find a way to deal with those frustrations and find a way back to the central love point of it all. I think we handle it slightly better now, but when you’re a younger, formative artist, that stuff can fucking do your head in. Yeah, so just find other ways to handle that.
Goddard: Yeah, the big thing for me was sort of like, “What’s the alternative?” I was like, these great ideas are just going to sit there and not, that’s not a viable alternative. They’re not going to get finished. You’ve got to finish them. Like people, they’ve got to be born into the world, and set free. That was a big motivating… And I was thinking the whole time, imagine the amount of amazing music that’s out there in the world right now, just sitting that people need to finish. I bet there’s incredible stuff that’s sitting there. If anyone’s listening to that, this interview or whatever, and they hear that, I hope that I can go like, “Oh, that’s that’s me. I’ve got some really cool stuff.” The world needs to hear it. It deserves to be out there.
Kenny: Actually, that’s a really cool point because you do need to hear that sometimes. There was actually a really motivating point where we’re so in it. We had these parts for, I can’t remember the song, but there’s a producer, Nick Didier, that we’ve worked with on our record, and he’s a lovely, lovely dude. And we just sent him this little bit, and it’s the first thing we’ve sent him in years, just as a soundboard. And he’s like, “Oh yeah, cool, cool.” Then he sort of said a few bits about it, but it was more about what he said. He said, “Look, whatever you’re doing, just finish it off.” He said something like “The world needs more Karnivool music” or something. You’re just like, “Fuck. Yes. It’s very simple. Cool. Agreed. Let’s do this.” It was a really lovely thing for him to say that it landed in the studio at the right time.
Goddard: The world needs more good music made by humans.
mxdwn: That’s very true. And I guess it just kind of goes back to the point of needing a sense of freedom. So releasing this music, it’s kind of setting it free into the world. I feel like that’s what you guys did very well on this album.
Kenny: Thank you, man.
Goddard: I can’t overstate the importance of having someone who knows what they’re doing, who believes in the project to help so you don’t have to do it. Because that’s one thing where, just to ask for some help is what got us over. Forrester, having him was the missing part to get it done.
mxdwn: And there’s never anything wrong with asking for help.
Make sure to check out Karnivool’s website for news regarding up coming shows and releases. And listen to the new album, In Verses, available February 6th, 2026.
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