Phantogram is a duo like no other. The symbiotic and respectful chemistry that lifelong friends Sarah Barthel and Josh Carter have is palpable in just one conversation. They have once again honed into the unique but diverse sound that Phantogram is known for in their latest album, Memory of a Day, which is emotional, raw, gritty, and beautiful.
The two knew what they wanted for this album from its inception, and also what they didn’t want from it every step of its journey to fruition. It is one longtime fans will appreciate and one that Phantogram’s memory will live on.
mxdwn had the absolute pleasure of talking with Barthel and Carter to learn more about the record’s meaning and production, along with some of the fascinating little details that make Phantogram the stunning musical duet that the two have curated since the beginning.
mxdwn: The album title Memory of a Day is ingenious in my opinion. Memories, good and bad do live in the body, and a song has the power to bring them out, which is something that has always affected me as a listener. Can you tell me where the idea came from to create an album with this as the theme?
Josh Carter: Well, a lot of the concepts sort of came up because I was looking at this thing called a life calendar, which was kind of shocking to look at, it’s basically a series of all the weeks you have in your life if you were to live to the age of 80, and seeing that kind of exploded view of how many days you have on this planet was kind of jarring to me at the time. So, a lot of the concept that came from that was put into these songs of like different memories and just the essence of life and kind of embracing what life is and love and death and almost the absurdity of existence at the same time. How strange life can be and also like it being all a mystery as well.
mxdwn: Interesting. I like that a lot. So, then which song for each of you hits home the hardest? Whether it be a sad or happy memory?
Sarah Barthel: Oh, well, they all kind of hit a different type of emotion, you know, kind of like the way a memory of even a smell or someone’s fragrant or, I guess to us, different tones of senses or melodies represent something different. I think right now for me is “Ashes.” I think that one hits home pretty well right now, but, what’s the beauty of it is that, it’s ever changing. And “I Wanna Know” at the moment. What about you, Josh?
JC: I think probably the title track, and I can give you a little background on that too. I mean, aside from the life calendar, that was originally what spawned the idea as well is the song, the chorus I wrote, and the basic idea for the song I wrote the week I had to put my dog down. And the lyrics for the chorus is, it’s what you wanted, but couldn’t say, and then ‘quote, I’m not afraid of dying or what it feels like, end quote.’ It’s kind of like how I felt my dog was ready, you know, to go to the other side and just how strange and sad it was. I don’t know, just kind of like visualizing these flash memories of being with my animal and everything in life, period. You know, it’s kind of in a way sort of almost stereotypical kind of, you see your life flashing before your eyes, when you’re dying or like in a film where it’s just this montage and collection of memories. Be them good or bad or sweet and loving or angry or sad.
mxdwn: Interesting. I totally understand. I have unfortunately also had to put a lot of, not a lot, but I’ve had a lot of dogs, in my life, and putting them down is really hard and it sucks and it’s very sad. I’m sorry to hear that. Also Sarah, I really resonated with, “I Wanna Know” too, I actually have a question about that later, so I love that you said that.
SB: Oh, nice. Yeah.
mxdwn: I think it may be my favorite song on the album, but Phantogram cannot fit into a single genre box yet there’s a trademark sound or like feeling that comes along with listening to your music. How do you manage to keep your sound ever changing yet distinctive?
JC: I think what keeps it ever changing and distinctive is because we’ve always kind of marched to the beat of our own drum and never subscribe to current trends musically or anything like that. And so when we started, we wanted to make music that honestly, we would just want to listen to. And we still do. I think that’s why we have our own particular sound, and we’re very influenced by so many different genres as well that I think we’ve done a pretty good job at incorporating all these influences, yet making it cohesive. On top of it, even though I sing on, you know, quite a bit of our music, I think Sarah has a very distinct female voice that I just love because you listen to a lot of female artists out there and I think a lot of them are all trying to sound the same. That’s another thing I’ve taken pride in, is that I think that we really keep our integrity, we sing honestly like how we would speak and Sarah has an honest voice and I have an honest voice, and we’re not trying to be something that we’re not. So, I’m very lucky to have Sarah.
SB: Thanks Josh. I’m lucky to have you.
JC: Awe.
SB: Awe.
mxdwn: Yeah, that’s such a good point. You both do, especially Sarah, you have a very distinct voice and it really makes a difference and people are trying to sound the same, so when you stand out, it is key. And I love that. How is this album different than past ones, whether it be emotionally, creatively or anything else? How is it going to define Phantogram in the future, do you think?
SB: Hmm. Well, I mean, it’s a natural progression. It always is for us. We’re always kind of following the next evolution of kind of where our sound always, I don’t know, I guess levels up in a way, but I think it’s organic and it’s natural and we’ve been doing this for such a long time. The beauty of all of this now for us is that we know so much more. We’ve experienced so much more. We know what we want more. We know what we don’t want. I guess just that comes from years and years of doing this. And luckily along the way, we’ve grown, we’ve become friends with people in the music world, the industry, just like the people that are fans of us have also taught us a lot and we’ve always just been growing. So, this album is really especially important to us because we were waiting so long to be able to release music. Our last album came out the week of the Pandemic, so that one kind of was a strange experience in general. We were just very much aware of what we wanted to do, what we didn’t want to do. We wanted to take our time. We didn’t want to feel the pressure or the rush of the things that we had experienced in the past, and we just kind of like put our foots down and also did exactly what we wanted to. It was a long time coming in a lot of ways, but it was also the most enjoyable time, writing and recording, because of all of those things. It felt like Eyelid Movies because we were able to just really come back home between the two of us, and just be the best people we possibly could b for our art. It just made the experience so much more important, for us. I think that to me, that’s what makes this album so different.
mxdwn: Definitely. I totally agree. It is kind of going back to like your earlier albums and that kind of sound and feeling that it brings.
SB: Yeah.
JC: Yeah. What I like about it that ties in with what you’re saying is it has a more raw feel, almost like there’s a grit to it that I always, that we always wanted, that we shop for when we started. I think you can really hear it more in this album than a couple of our past albums.
mxdwn: Yeah, definitely. I agree with that. Can you tell me about the song “Attaway.” It’s creative process and inspiration and what it means to you guys?
JC: Yeah. That might be my favorite song on the whole album, but it changes. That was a super fun song to write because, what I really like about it is it touches something within me that’s so emotional but I can’t fully describe.
mxdwn: Yes.
JC: But other than that, even just the structure of it I find interesting because it’s not a typical structure of a song, things kind of come in threes and the verses change by a couple beats between them. It’s hard to explain, but it’s still easy to listen to. It doesn’t feel like it’s a challenge to the listener. For me, it’s a combination of, I think, it’s just kind of clever and it’s emotional and I don’t think I’ve heard a song like it. And I love the lyrics. Sarah and I got together, and this is how we do things often, is we just kind of brainstorm and think of scenarios together and visuals, and it just came together very beautifully.
mxdwn: Yes, it did. Definitely. I don’t know if you want to add anything, Sarah. You don’t have to, but I just want to make sure.
SB: No, you just hit the nail on the head there. Josh did.
mxdwn: “It Wasn’t Meant to Be” is kind of about how a relationship can be hurtful, but it doesn’t always mean that people separate, some just have a soul connection that can’t be severed. And I think that goes really well with the album’s overarching theme of sounds and memories and everything. Was that on purpose or where did this song come from and how did you go about capturing this feeling in its instrumentation?
JC: {laughs}. Yeah. Well.
SB: Yeah, I mean this, do you want me to start or do you want to start Josh?
JC: You can start.
SB: This song is maybe one of my favorites as well. I love the aspect of what we do really well, making a dark sounding song sound really light and happy. This is one of those tunes, and I think an important element to what Phantogram is, and our album. So, this kind of song is, to me definitely, the like “Mouthful of Diamonds” to our Memory of a Day.
mxdwn: Mm-hmm.
SB: And it is actually a really old song. It was actually a beat that Josh made before Phantogram was even a band, I believe. Then it was a beat that, we have a folder that we put all of our stuff in so we can share and work on stuff when we’re solo, and so this was a beat that I, man, I think I wrote on top of it maybe even like 2008 when we were like beginning of a band, but it was always something that I just loved and wanted and knew that we had to figure out. I knew it would be important, but I threw it in a folder and then that folder was just kind of like, okay, it’s in the folder of the, like, never want to forget about it, but, you know, we’ll get to it. This was actually one of the first songs, this one and “Move In Silence” were the first two songs that we worked on for this album. We kind of set it aside, worked on it, put it aside again, right? And then we worked on all the other songs. Then this was one of the last songs that we kind of like brought back into the idea, the concept of Memory of a Day. So proud of it. I’m so happy. It’s like we figured it out. I’m so, so happy because it’s been a part of our lives for decades.
JC: Yeah. If I could add to that, because a lot of songs that we make are like putting a puzzle together, especially when it’s a lot of chopping of samples and things like that. So it makes me really happy as well when we can figure things out because a song like that, when Sarah takes a beat that I made, she’s like, we got to work on this, it’s a lot different than just sitting down with guitar and piano and being like, all right, let’s write a song. You know? You have to kind of figure out how to write within the means of how things were kind of chopped up and made, if that makes any sense.
mxdwn: Yeah, no, it does. That’s interesting, and I’m glad it came to fruition.
JC: Same. Sarah is really good at that too. I’ll make a bunch of crap and she’ll just dig through it and be like, oh, this is really cool, why didn’t you share this with me? And like, I don’t know. She breathes new life into old ideas that I make and, and vice versa. It’s fun to be able to do that with each other.
mxdwn: I’m sure. That’s interesting. I like knowing that little tidbit of information. You guys definitely seem to work well together. I mean, obviously, you’ve seen that through your music, but just little things like that that you’ve mentioned are what make you guys, I think, who you are. And it means a lot.
JC: In a way, it’s kind of like a two piece exquisite corpse at times, you know?
SB & mxdwn simultaneously: Mm-hmm.
JC: Just kind of adding on to something that somebody else did.
mxdwn: It’s so true. I personally love “I Wanna Know,” as I mentioned earlier, so much for like the opening lyrics and I don’t know how to describe this, underlining like deep beat that, I don’t know if you know what I’m talking about, and I don’t want to imitate it and sound like an idiot. I don’t know how to describe it, but I just love the song. Can you share the creative process behind it and how it came to be?
JC: Yeah. That one came together, like a lot of that came together really quickly in a way. I came up with a beat idea the night before, and the next day we just started kind of jamming on it and singing what came to mind, and we pieced it together in a very natural emotional way. Wouldn’t you say so, Sarah?
SB: Yeah, that was a fun one, and like a quick idea kind of all came together at once. Right?
JC: Yeah.
SB: It was really fun, and we had so much fun with production too, and just making it sound like a soundscape of just like a journey, which is which what I love about it too.
JC: Yeah, the constant builds.
mxdwn: Yes.
SB: Constant builds.
mxdwn:
Yeah, exactly. It is that build. Do you guys know what I’m talking about that like deeper part of that song?
JC: When the beat starts?
mxdwn: It’s like kind of throughout the song, but it’s definitely most prominent in the beginning.
JC: Is it like basically a mix of the kick and the deep sink?
mxdwn: Yes!
JC: Yeah. That’s kind of what I thought you were referring to. It has like a deep groove to it that is almost a little, it’s penetrating and slightly ominous in a way.
mxdwn: Yes, exactly. I could not find the words to describe it. And I was like, how do I even, like, I can’t even imitate it. I’m like, I don’t know. It was so distinct and it’s just like, makes me love the song even more and it’s just one of the smallest aspects of the song, but it just makes it. I just love that part for it. Anyways, thank you for that because I was so confused on how to even describe it.
JC: Well, we were hoping that you would beatbox it for us.
{All laugh}
mxdwn: I was about to, but I don’t want to embarrass myself too much. So, how has being lifelong friends played into creating music and working together in general?
JC: Oh man, I…
SB: Just, it’s a dream.
mxdwn: Yeah.
JC: Yeah. It is a dream.
SB: Dream come true.
JC: Yeah. Being able to work with your best friend and also being able to be completely honest and unbridled in every aspect of our lives has been pretty important to how we create art, you know? Sarah has said this before, we’re each other’s biggest witnesses in life. And we often go through similar, or the same, things with each other because we spend so much time together and we’ve known each other since we were little kids. We’re like family.
SB: Yeah. It’s nice and it’s really an incredible thing to be able to enjoy it with someone that you care about so much and like your best friend. Just like being able to enjoy this crazy ride and to be able to have the support as well through this crazy ride. I don’t know how solo artists do it, but then again, I don’t know what it’s like, I only know this, but being able to just have the support all like a hundred percent, full kind of unconditional love and support while doing what you dream, your dream job. Your dream life is just an another aspect that I think we’re really lucky to have.
JC: Yeah.
SB: Versus, you know, a band that hates each other and, you know, your egos get in the way. We work together because we’re on the same team, because we care about each other so much. It’s just all meshed into one and we’ve finally figured out the best way to do it, and I couldn’t be more grateful.
JC: Yeah. We’re good at compromising too.
mxdwn: Oh, that’s important.
JC: Yeah, like sometimes I’ll think one of her ideas is trash and then like, she’ll talk about it more, or she’ll be like, yo, that’s a stupid idea, Josh, and we’ll just kind of hash things out and reach an understanding, and sometimes, often, prove each other wrong or just be like, yeah, you’re right about that. You know? We’re, again, we’re really good friends. We’ll work like, like 8, 10 hours in the studio and call each other on the drive home and be like, what’s up
mxdwn: Awe. That’s awesome.
JC: Yeah.
mxdwn: So, you have toured with and have opened for some insanely notable names, like Arcade Fire, The xx, I mean the list goes on, Kings of Leon as of late. Who has made the longest lasting impact on you? Who comes to mind as making an impact?
JC: I mean, they’ve all been super different and fun in in their own, different ways, but I’m just gonna go ahead and say one of my favorite tours as far as fun factor would be, well, Queens of the Stone Age was super fun. Those guys are really, really fun and they know how to party.
mxdwn: Oh, I bet.
JC: Yeah. So we all like to party. And Muse was really fun too because we did Europe and we did like seven nights in a row at one of the biggest arenas in Paris. It was a, it was a trip. It was so cool.
mxdwn: Yeah, I’m sure.
JC: Yeah. What about you, Sarah?
SB: Those were, those were fun. It’s also just fun to be on tour on tour with another band and you’re doing two months together and you become so close, but then you miss them. It’s kind of like camp.
mxdwn: Oh yeah, I could see that.
SB: Future Islands, that was a tour. We took them out on tour way back, but those guys, just good people you can relate to and connect to that we just kind of use each other’s support system and it’s just such a fun time.
mxdwn: Oh that’s awesome. I can definitely see I’ve heard a lot of people say like making friends, that you tour with and with other bands and stuff, and then missing them and I think that’s awesome, and it’s so cute. Thank you guys so much for doing the interview. I’ve truly been a fan for a very long time. I was so stoked when I saw Phantogram as an interview. I’ve seen you guys a lot and I’m just honored that I was able to interview you guys. Thank you so much for your time.
SB: Yeah, thank you so much for your support. Thank you.
JC: Yeah.
mxdwn: Good luck with everything.
SB: Thank you.
JC: Cheers.
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