It was Friday June 24th, 2005 9 p.m. at the Tritone on 1506 South Street. The balmy summer breeze made Philadelphia feel like San Diego as I sucked on a watery drink, waiting. The red glass votive candles flickered against the crimson walls and expressionist paintings in the tiny retro venue casting oddly appropriate shadows on the small crowd. Presently, a hurried quartet known as ZZZZ, (“Zeez” being one of many pronunciations) burst through the door with their equipment; a travel-size drum kit, analogue keyboard, amps, mic stands, bass and saxophone. The road-worn players assembled their set in record timing and disappeared for a breather. They reappeared dressed in crisp white for a pre-show beer and off-the-record conversations, which consisted of cultural niche discussions and how keyboardist Ellen Bunch, with no prior band experience learned what “jamming” is. Drummer Greg Sharp expressed his concern with the volume; they apparently played pretty loud, and he wasn’t sure this small bar could accommodate them. Looking around at the handful of attendees equipped with earplugs, I was sure that it would be ok.
ZZZZ started their set out with “Bandit King and Queen,” arguably the most radio-friendly song on their album, Palm Reader. They worked backwards from the record ending with “Assassination Polka,” one of my personal favorites. The crowd was enraptured, completely captivated by the complicated drum lines and heartbeat of the kick drum, the heavy metal-industrial-style bass, the intricate, classically-influenced piano, and the surreal alto sax. As sax player Steve Sostak had said later during the interview, the album translates better when heard live. After watching the four of them in action, I have a deeper appreciation for the music and Palm Reader has indelibly earned a place of honor next to my Dead Can Dance and Rasputina CDs. The members of ZZZZ are true musicians in every sense of the word. Typically, when groups have such convoluted time signature changes mid-song, there is some sort of conduction whether it’s a nod of the head, wave of the arm, or a visible “one, two, three” seen on the lips of the musicians. As Bunch and Sostak, (who are usually able to do so) could not make eye contact having their views of each other so obstructed by the cramped positioning, this was not the case. The four of them flawlessly changed from one odd tempo to the next using nothing but intuition and an extreme understanding of the music.
I was surprised to find the show to be so refined as the band has had a mere six weeks of practice, owing to Sharp’s herniated disc only just now recovering, the loss of their original bassist John Brady and the consequential acquisition of current bassist Ryan Weinstein. In spite of all of the odds against them the only gripes about the show was that there just weren’t enough people there to experience the dark magic of the band and the volume on the microphones were turned way down which resulted in not being able to properly hear Sostak and Bunch.
Sostak, the obvious veteran of the stage and subsequent position of front man has found a different voice for his sax from the album, playing around with the effects created by a simple Ibanez delay pedal. Its result was melancholy and heart-wrenching, exacting a tonal quality unlike most conventional instruments. Bunch has only recently found the delights of distortion pedals, and not being comfortable enough with theirs effects, did not use any at the show. Thus, her instrument still had that younger carnival/Atari quality to it which is a main part of ZZZZ’s unique sound. Sharp, having just recovered from a serious injury may have felt a bit rusty but did not perform so. He is taking specific lessons to keep himself fresh, innovative and in shape. Weinstein, though a recent addition to the group performing music written by previous bassist Brady, played his part as if he had conjured it himself. As a DJ on his own time, he should definitely have some interesting input further down the road.
As the last lingering note died, the crowd (now beginning to fill out a little) erupted into emphatic cheers and whistles as ZZZZ broke down their equipment as quickly as it was erected. A drink and a sigh later, the sweaty group was ready for me, as local Philadelphia band Trouble Everyday began their setup. I led them outside and down a dark street as they giggled about inside band jokes and the sketchy interview area, which ended up being a small parking lot. Sostak and Bunch perched themselves under the “Tow Zone” sign and yellow street light.
After much discussion of the greasy McDonald’s bag comfortably resting in the center of the circle, it was decidedly set on fire and the group huddled around the make-shift “camp fire” warming their hands. The interview was now to begin.
mxdwn: Just for the record, and this was kind of answered on stage, but how is the band’s name pronounced?
Ellen Bunch: He says “Four Zeez,”I say “Zeez” ’cause I’m lazy…
Greg Sharp: We say “Zeez” or you can say it however you want. You can say “Four Zeez”, “Zee-zee-zee-zee” or “Zeez” or “zzzzzzzz” or—
mxdwn: So it’s open to interpretation?
Sharp: Yeah!
mxdwn: OK…and where did it come from?
Steve Sostak: Mainly, I guess we traded a bad name for a bad name. I thought it was a good name. We basically had two ideas. One being something that was a little more iconic as opposed to, after being in a band called Sweep the Leg Johnny, I wanted something that was short and sweet and uh—
mxdwn: Not Karate Kid-derived?
Sostak: Very true. And we figured that we’d always be able to find it at a record store right at the end if we ever made it big you’d know where to find our records… And since there were four members of us from the start, it just sort of made sense… Keep in mind we did know there was another Three Zeez out there but we were like “You know, but we’re “Four Zeez”! If we get a fifth member, we’re gonna hafta change it to “Five Zeez.”
mxdwn: Where did the title Palm Reader come from?
Bunch: I guess that was in the van. We were just kind of sitting back and listening to sort-of-kind-of, sometimes our music can be a little eerie, a little like arabian that it kind of made sense. I don’t even remember the other things we were throwing around now that I think about it.
Sostak: Actually it was on the way, Greg was on the way to New York ~ and Ellen and I were driving we were just trying to come up with a few ideas and that one
somehow just popped into our heads and after a couple days of thinking about it we really just thought it was appropriate.
mxdwn: Do you think there is a strong connection between the dark and quickly sketched hands in the album artwork and the music? Why did you choose that visual style?
Bunch: Yeah. Basically I thought it fit pretty well with sort of the mood you know a lot of the songs are just kind of like “What’s going …” there’s a lot of ambiguity… and so it kind of works with that like “What’s going on…” What do you think of the artwork? (motions to Sharp)
Sharp: I think it fits perfectly. You guys were talking about the title. We came up with the title first and then we started nailing down the artwork. So the artwork kind of came as a result of thinking about the title along with the music so I think that’s where the imagery kind of came from when we were actually in the recording studio and talking about that. I think it’s amazing. It works perfectly. The imagery when I think about it, that’s exactly what I’m thinking. I didn’t see it at first and these guys were working on it. I was on tour and came back and was like “perfect.”
mxdwn: How would you respond to the popular comparison to Danny Elfman’s work or Tim Burton’s soundtracks? Were these artists an influence?
Sostak: We were listening to Boingo in the van the other day. I guess it more of us trying to come up with something that was sort of the one-page catch-phrase-y way to kind of introduce people to the spirit of the band and I think we are in one respect those type of soundtracks. I think we could all kind of imagine taking one of our songs or taking a clip and maybe put it into a Tim Burton film and I think it would make sense. So that was something that we were trying to kind of pinpoint with Polyvinyl saying “If we had to pinpoint something what might be something that would catch people’s eyes and ears..?” and Danny Elfman is absolutely amazing I don’t think we compare to what he does but at the same time, spirit-wise and the fact that there’s some franticness and some moodiness and some time changes and energy changes I think it’s really appropriate.
Ryan Weinstein: That was my first impression of the band even before I started playing with them I thought there was definite affinity with that and that’s what attracted me to it.
mxdwn: What (other) groups or styles of music would you say had the most impact on the band’s unique sound? What bands are you fans of now?
Bunch: I think it changes. I think you guys listen to some different, I think that’s part of what makes the diversity of the band because I know you (gestures towards Sostak) listen to a lot of like gypsy stuff and I don’t even know where I’m more into like Talking Heads and Brian Eno and old 80’s music from Minneapolis like Urban Gorillas and stuff like that and then you (gestures towards Sharp) have more of like a rock background—
Sharp: And I’m kind of into all forms of that as well and I definitely have an 80’s background as well I’m kind of an old school Goth kid you know…late 80s.. I’m showing my age here but uh yeah–
Sostak: I don’t know…things that tend to be adventurous but taking, I don’t know like…limited abilities and taking like what we can do and trying to push ourselves to be adventurous and that’s kind of what comes out.
Bunch: I think also that even the dark element that came out that stuff had a lot to do with John Brady with our bass player before you (gestures to Weinstein).He was big into the black metal.
mxdwn: You kind of get that feel in some of the bass lines—
Sostak: And uh Brady was listening to like The Swans and stuff like that. I mean he’s…John was a remarkable writer in bass I think because he’s, I got a chance to play in Sweep with him for years and he’s just the kind of guy that can ride one note sometimes for 20, 30 measures and it sounds just great.
mxdwn: Tell me a little bit about your creative process; how the songs are conceived and produced.
Sharp: It’s been a while I mean, those songs on the record I think we all just started initially because that’s the beginning of the band. So we started, you know, Steve and I just started just playing together and we were playing with different guitar players this is also kind of maybe answering a question about the conception of the band and then we found that it really wasn’t working that well with guitar players and then we had heard about Ellen through friends and knew Ellen, and asked her to play with us and stuff and came in and played and it worked really well and then, then we kind of went from there so a lot of it really with the creative process was us three being in the space and hashing parts out and just being really creative really like just throwing everything out I think that’s, to use the word “adventurous” ’cause that’s how adventurous, it’s just like “Let’s try this, let’s try this part, let’s exhaust every option” and then basically try to go over the top and we still play parts and write parts and laugh when we do it. We’re laughing, and we’re not laughing, we don’t think parts are funny ’cause we don’t think it’s ironic and we don’t, we just think it’s kind of funny because it’s kind of cheesy and fun in a video game, children’s school kind of way, you know… and what of it? We just kind of like it in a dumb way. We think it’s funny. But, you know so it’s kind of that process and we just kind of go with that with every song. We spend a lot of time on it. What are you guys thinking?
Bunch: I think a lot of things that happened later, after the first couple of songs I know that you and I would kind of either you would start with something or I would go or like I know the one thing for Tubas, I don’t even know what the real name is, that came up out of uh me going to my brother’s house for Christmas and playing on their piano and like dat-dah-dah-duh-dah (makes playing motions). I mean that came out of that and then playing that back and being like “I think this is kind of cool” that’s sort of how, and then he you know just kind of swirled around until–
Sostak: It’s a process I mean and it’s—that’s one that we already talked about, kind of the hiatus we’ve been on based on like people either being on tour or job related or Greg being hurt so I always think there are these windows of inspiration for bands that have that kind of relaxed energy and we really captured that with the first record, the one you saw tonight so now it’s another challenge of like trying to be resourceful and not necessarily—what’s the word I’m looking for—making sure we step up to the plate and put in the time that’s necessary to still write songs that are really precise at times but also very fun and all of different things we like to do, so… it’s going to be interesting to see where it goes from here for sure.
Sharp: To say the least!
mxdwn: Ok…as a band, how do you have such fierce chemistry? Is it because you are close or because you are working professionals?
Sostak: Definitely not working professionals. We played to two people last night.
Weinstein: But those two people thought I cook on that CD.
Sharp: It happens. We played to three hundred the night before. I think we just enjoy playing together and enjoy the music. I think its fun. We’re having fun like we’re all just obviously getting a lot out of the music we enjoy playing together and respect what each other does as musicians that it probably wouldn’t come across as well as it does.
mxdwn: On most songs, such as “Forget It” there is a level balance of male and female vocals. Do you think this is an important factor in your music?
Bunch: Yeah… I think initially it was my insecurity in singing so we kind of went on that route–
Sostak: We also talked of the idea of there weren’t many bands that actually had sort of the show tune-y like back and forth almost like dialogue singing as opposed to um something being maybe we’re just doing harmonies or uh so we really consciously I think for a while were like “Let’s try something that we don’t see a lot of bands doing.” Where it’s like the fact that we did have a male and female vocal I think it was a good opportunity to try to uh, I really think it adds an interesting dynamic to the band you know? So hopefully we’ll keep doing that but also keep expanding on what we can do together and Ellen getting more confident with her singing ‘cause she does a good job.
mxdwn: And along with that, in songs such as “Bandit King and Queen” you seem to be tackling some issues between the sexes. What would you say is the basis for that?
Sostak: Marriage?
Bunch: Yeah… you were just talking about this the other day ‘cause it seems like you were saying how your lyrics just always tend to go towards that sort of issue.
Sostak: I don’t know it is something that has always seemed to be like that spark of inspiration as far as like you know, I’m sure there’s thousands of millions of bands out there that sing about relationships–
Bunch: Yeah it’s a common you know it’s like what’s the biggest conflict in your life? Oh this dude or this girl they won’t do this–
Sostak: And the fact that we already kind of had that built into the band…
Bunch: And this way we can like yell at each other and not fucking care.
Sharp: For that song too and most of the songs we hash out the music and then he’s got to crank out the lyrics and just the styling and stuff and with that song especially I remember myself with this face and laughing about the vocals but in such a good way and then I was like once it’s recorded sit down and like this is a really sexy song. It’s a little uncomfortable at times it really works, you know? It goes with the music and these guys did a good job with that so…
mxdwn: Ellen, do you find that never having been in a band before has been a hindrance or a benefit?
Bunch: A benefit or a hindrance to what? Specifically, I don’t know. I mean I don’t even really know… I guess it’s given me confidence to think I can write like I was telling you earlier when they first asked me to play I was like I don’t even know what that would mean like to play so I guess in that sense it’s made me actually think that I can be creative in a music sense rather than just visual arts or something like that ’cause that’s kind of what I did before so I guess it’s been a benefit. I can express myself through other means.
mxdwn: Steve, how does your experience with ZZZZ compare with your prior experiences with Sweep the Leg Johnny and Check Engine?
Sostak: Um…a little less drinking that’s for sure…that could be an age factor thing too. Really I guess it came from ZZZZ kind of came from Greg and I when Greg was with Tekulvi and Tekulvi split up really just the initial approach I think and it ties to like a question we talked about before where Sweep especially was formed with this idea that we really were like going after something like trying to get to a point where we could be like self-sufficient and we got really close I mean it was like and I loved, I mean I still love the band. We kind of hit a wall and it was time to take a break and that was that. Greg and I kind of like got together with ZZZZ and the idea of like fun, relaxing still like we talked about being adventurous, try different things that we’ve never done necessarily like with the approach with music being a little more light-hearted and a little bit more melodic and crazy in that respect and the fact that like the Polyvinyl thing for instance worked out was kind of all just things that I think just stemmed from that laid back attitude and uh I guess for me it’s really just the approach that we’ve taken with the band and really stepping back and really not giving a fuck as much and allowing like if the show doesn’t go so well it’s more a matter of like did we play well, did we have a good time as opposed to having this necessary eyes on the prize. I think in the long run it’s going to make the longevity of ZZZZ a much more attainable thing you know as we get older and hopefully keep playing over the next 5, 10, 20 years to keep it a really active project even over long distances.
mxdwn: What effects processor do you use on the sax?
Sostak: Just a little crappy grey Ibanez delay pedal. That’s it…and it has a little echo switch that I’ve been playing with lately that I’m really happy about and um I just play it through an amplifier that I inherited via a friend and it’s just actually a bass combo 15″ speaker cabinet and I love it. It’s really allowed us to not even consider really bringing in a guitarist in at this point because the width and the dynamic that that brings I think is cool and Ellen is discovering some pedals now too and this guy is talking about buying a distortion for the bass so… so yeah. It’s just a little Ibanez delay pedal. $55 I think at Guitar Center.
mxdwn: Ryan, where did you come from?
Weinstein: I don’t know. I am from Miami, Florida and uh my mom and my dad had me in the hospital and they brought me home and fed me… no I’m from Miami you know–
Sostak: Do the voice.
Weinstein: An’ den when I was yiddle dey dwopped me on my head and I juss knew I hadda pway bass! No… I am from Miami. I met Steve quite a few years ago; I don’t know how many years ago it was I worked in a club, I don’t know if this is the question you’re asking but I’m gonna give you the answer. I met Steve years ago at a club in Miami that he played in with one of the really early Sweep the Leg Johnny tours and I moved up to Chicago for a bunch of personal reasons and wound up reconnecting with Steve and working with Greg at the Fireside Bowl and I heard they needed somebody so I said alright I wanna do it and then that’s how it happened. It’s pretty simple.
mxdwn: How do you feel about it so far? Good decision?
Weinstein: Like I’m about to jump off a cliff. I already wanna go home. No. I love playing with these guys. It’s a real challenge. It was a lot of fun getting to work with these guys you know they’re all real solid musicians everybody’s like we said before really adventurous and I respect that immensely in musicians because I had played with a lot of people who are pretty scared of just trying so for me this is a real treat. I love you guys.
mxdwn: Greg how do you feel that your back injury has affected you in being a part of the band and having everything rolling?
Sharp: Well it’s actually made me appreciate being able to play music again. Literally there was a time while this was going on that I was like uh I really don’t know when I’m going to be able to play ever again. You know facing surgery and things like that it was just not knowing what was going on got me really uneasy about it and also got me really inspired to try to play and obviously get back and play with these guys and so in one way it got me really really inspired and really happy to play music and I tell you what it’s really working and like every night we get out there and play I feel good and happy. I can actually play the drums again and got inspired to get back and write with these guys and stuff. It’s hard not to especially when you’re a part of something so closely and then you don’t get to be a part of it for a little bit. You really miss it and you understand why you miss it for those reasons. It also made me realize how much I’m really into it you know… I didn’t really need this to happen to make me realize that for godsakes but I love you guys! But yeah…all in all I try to turn it into a positive so it’s fine. These guys helped me out a lot and we’re having a good time as long as I get back in playing that’s all that matters.
mxdwn: How do you all think that you have progressed, not only as individual musicians, but as a band thus far?
Sostak: I hide behind– that goes back to the Sweep stuff, not having the ability but kind of hide behind the guitar sounds and things like that really forcing me to kind of find a better voice for the sax so that’s been extremely exciting for me and it’s really inspiring me to like at some point in the near future to spend some quality individual time and get my chops to a spot where I can take that to another level hopefully. And as far as the band goes I mean as we all continue to improve that way I think the sky’s the limit I guess.
Bunch: I guess for myself personally I feel like– since everything was so new before I finally feel like comfortable presenting more ideas and like even in the sense of understanding how things get recorded everything like that. I feel like I would more input now and so maybe even in like a following album I would have more ideas to share with during mixing or anything like that, just a confidence of knowledge I guess or through experience knowing what the hell’s going on because I think before I was just kinda not really sure and everything was so new that I just didn’t really know what to do but now I feel confident like that I can write stuff at home. I guess one song that we didn’t play tonight that’s one that kind of came up out of me sitting at home and things like that so that I feel a little bit more comfortable presenting an idea or being a little bit more vocal about what things I was like to hear coming out of it, trying different stuff.
Sharp: Personally, one time when Steve and I started playing, we said we’re gonna really challenge ourselves to be more adventurous as musicians so I personally started playing very differently that I used to in my old bands, adapting different styles, listening to different kinds of music and drummers. A good friend of mine is a drum teacher and I’ve been taking some very specific kinds of lessons from him, you know, Latin drumming, different kinds of styles and stuff like that just so to try to utilize it and play differently and work on that and so… I grew a lot as a drummer than once we started playing incorporating that into songs really I think just like Ellen said too, gaining more confidence in playing and things like that really helped out a lot. I think that all of these things that we’ve been talking about elevated us as a band and pretty soon every song is going to be that much stronger that much more easier to write you know. Maybe we’ll just get too good be able to throw out all of these parts out of our ass and be like “God we just can’t put it together!”
Weinstein: I can only speak in context of playing with this band you know. I find that it’s definitely a real challenge, these guys push me really hard and I appreciate that aspect of it. I mean as far as growing, it’s definitely unlike anything I’ve ever done before. To that end, I find it just as exciting as anything I’ve ever done. I’ve been playing in bands for years and you know… how have I grown? I got a little fatter. I dunno. Playing with these guys just pushes me really hard, you know? That aspect of it I find, like I said, very enjoyable, you know? I think these guys all have a very strong voice for what they do individually and when it all comes together in the brief time I’ve been in the band, it just feels like super duper natural, super comfortable, super just exciting. And that’s super duper. And I alsho feew vewee ekshited and ehm alsho vewee happy. (entire group erupts into laughter)
mxdwn: What is the master plan at this point? What happens to ZZZZ next?
Bunch: Well… I guess it’s to continue writing for–we want to try to get one more album before–Steve has plans to go to Peru and his wife is there. She’s going to be teaching there and he’s gonna go down there too. Our plan is to work as much as we can through the fall up until the spring when we’re gonna do a European tour and he’s gonna go down to Peru for a while. So hopefully we’ll have a chunk written then that we can kind of lay down.
Sostak: Then one thing too that we talked about that some of the bands that we respect the most, I think one of their qualities is that they don’t rush. And we could fall into a trap trying to rush and make a new record just for the sake of just getting it done. And I think we all know at this point that by the time February rolls around and we get ready to go to Europe, quality over quantity and feel good about where we’re going again kind of get the momentum back. We’ve had a lack of momentum for about six months, maybe even longer and that’s gonna be really nice to have that fall where there’s– we all kind of dial into our jobs and we can have the time away from our jobs and we can have time without having to stress about much else and that’s gonna be awesome.
mxdwn: Well, you guys are going to be focusing on touring Europe, but what parts of Europe?
Sostak: Everywhere in continental Europe. I think we’re going to forego the UK and Spain this time just more for financial reasons ~ like the first Sweep tour, we had some financial issues that we’re still reeling from with our label and some things so we figured it wasn’t a good idea to dig ourselves that hole yet. So we’re gonna start in Germany and spend a lot of time in Eastern Europe. We did a split seven-inch with a band from Czech called Uz Jsme Doma. They’re gonna hopefully do some shows with us through like Poland and Croatia, Hungary and Slovenia and also Czech and Prague and everything. And just kind of hit the mainland there and see what happens.
mxdwn: All the places that you were saying that you kind of like to take a part in the culture?
Sharp: It seems like it works well and better for us. If we do have to give up a place that we have to go it’s like maybe we shouldn’t go to the UK and let’s spend more time. These kids are going to freak out from our music.
Sostak: Honestly, if we can have a good first tour over there that’s something that we can really consistently go back to Europe. Not to say that we shouldn’t tour the states but I think, I think that we all can see that the music, the kids over there are going to have a little bit more of an ear for it, a little more willingness to like give it a shot. Based on past experiences I think it’s going to be really great.
Bunch: I think where our influences are lying you know even just like that more modern classical influences which are more rhythm driven, things like that I think would be more acceptable in that sort of vein.
Sostak: It’s a good starting point. We’re going be huge in Europe and then we’ll come back to the States. That’s just the truth.
Sharp: We’re going to conquer them.
mxdwn: Is there anything else that I need to know?
Weinstein: Kids, stay in school.
Sostak: Quit while you’re ahead.
Sharp: That’s the same as saying “Don’t do drugs.”
Sostak: Well… you saw the performance. I’m really glad you got to see us. I think, I know we’re all proud of the record but it’s always the live experience is always where it’s at. Come see us, damnit!
All photos by Brandon Frisco
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